Will these elements from the Daredevil comic make it into Netflix’s third season?

I don’t necessarily go looking for every last potential spoiler or piece of set footage, especially the more obscure stuff. I will, however, discuss information that been covered by the major comic book news sites. If even this is too much information for you, you may want to stay away from this post. If, on the other hand, you are someone who does go looking for every last nugget of information available, please think twice about sharing that in the comments. Everything that’s been covered by at least 2-3 news site is fair game, as far as I’m concerned, but please err on the side of caution.

It was really hard to come up with a snappy title for this post that wasn’t a total mouthful. And, as you can tell, I pretty much failed at it. Either way, it’s high time we got to this item on the agenda, especially as the filming of the third season wrapped last week, incidentally while I happened to be in New York myself. I wish I could say that these two events were connected. Alas, they were not. 😉

With this post, I’d like to discuss some of what we know already, and also toss some ideas around for which elements from the comic might make their way into the third season. People seem to be clamoring for two things in particular: Bullseye and Born Again. The inclusion of Bullseye has all but been confirmed, so that ticks one box, and plenty of seeds have been planted for at least some elements of Frank Miller’s most famous storyline, beautifully illustrated by David Mazzucchelli, to make it into the show.

Not quite Born Again

What seems obvious to me, though, is that we won’t see the same exact story we know from the comics adapted for the Netflix show. First of all, the previous two seasons have taken plenty of liberties with the source material, drawing inspiration from events and well-known themes rather than copying them outright. We have no reason to expect anything else – or should I say less? – from this season.

Secondly, some of the things that have already happened thus far in Daredevil, and the Defenders, precludes an exact retelling of the Born Again arc from the comics in season three. The Defenders ended with Matt beginning to regain consciousness while being nursed back to health in a convent. There is mention of Sister Maggie, whom we know to be Matt’s mother, and the entire scene is staged to look very much like a panel from the comics. But, it’s taken from a scene that happens over two issues into the the Born Again arc (in Daredevil #230, as seen below next to the corresponding scene from the final episode of The Defenders), after Matt has already had his life destroyed by the Kingpin. In the Netflix take on this scene, the events leading up to his meeting with his mother has already been altered completely compared to the comic.

Matt seen injured on a bad in a convent. Scene comparison between the final episode of The Defenders and a simliar panel from Daredevil #230, by Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli

It is also highly unlikely that we will be dealing with any kind of scenario in which Karen becomes a drug addict and betrays Matt. It certainly looks as if we’re finally getting some insight into Karen’s background, and her dark secrets, and there’s no reason to make her character even darker by having her develop an addiction to hard drugs in the current timeline. Especially since there’s no need for her to turn Matt over to the Kingpin, when the latter has already declared that he’s going to destroy him. As you might recall, this happened in the second season of Daredevil after Matt went to visit Fisk in jail, and ended up threatening Vanessa, for which he also took a severe beating.

I actually think it’s a very interesting twist that Fisk’s initial motivation to go after Matt in his civilian identity has nothing to do with Daredevil. Somewhere along the line, he’s going to have to connect Matt and Daredevil, but this can just as easily come about as a result of careful research. The fact that Matt and Daredevil both vanish from the scene at the same time is another obvious clue. I’ve seen some people suggest that Matt making any attempt to fight back during his encounter with Fisk would get the latter thinking that Matt may not be blind in the “traditional” sense, but that makes little sense to me unless you set your expectations for real life blind people at the level of Mr. Magoo. Whatever the case may be, we don’t actually need Karen to spark Fisk’s interest in going after Matt Murdock. He’s already looking to do just that.

How long will Matt have been away?

Let us now turn to the things we can’t really know much about. It seems reasonable that the entire first season of The Punisher takes place after the events of The Defenders, if only because of the publishing schedule. The second season of Jessica Jones definitely does. We’ll get more to go on when the second season of Luke Cage comes out in June since Matt’s “death” very neatly coincides with Misty getting her arm cut off. At the very least, we’re probably looking at something like several months of absence on Matt’s part. I’m guessing that as many as six to eight weeks can realistically be spent on his recovery (not that we’ll necessarily be privy to that information), but my guess is that we’re still going to be left with a rather big gap for the writers to try to address in terms of why he’s not announcing to even his closest allies that he’s alive. I honestly wouldn’t put it past the creators to throw some amnesia into the mix.

Matt has suffered amnesia on more than one occasion in the comic, and the may draw some kind of inspiration from this. There’s the storyline which begins in Daredevil #284, by Ann Nocenti and Lee Weeks, when Daredevil returns to New York after traveling around upstate – and literally going to hell – where he suffers a gradual mental breakdown that causes him to forget about Daredevil, and most of his previous life. He believes his name is Jack Murdock, takes up boxing, and forms a relationship with a woman named Nyla. He also does an interesting role reversal with Bullseye who steals his Daredevil costume early in the story, which goes on for several issues. Matt also has something that looks like some kind of psychosis in the Inferno storyline (Daredevil #345-347, by J.M. DeMatteis, and Ron Wagner), following a long period of living under the name Jack Batlin after having faked his own death. This breakdown, which is partially brought about by the death of his former girlfriend Glorianna O’Breen, also includes elements of amnesia, and famously ends with Foggy finding out about Matt being Daredevil. Amnesia storylines are quite difficult to pull off, but there’s obviously some less extreme takes on the topic that might make more sense.

Foggy discovers Matt's secret, as seen in Daredevil #347, by J.M. DeMatteis and Ron Wagner

Even if Matt fully remembers his past and has a smooth(ish) recovery, there might be other reasons why he’d be hesitant to declare to the world that he’s back. We all know that he can get really self-destructive and might actually believe that his friends are better off with him dead. He may also want to try to engineer his return – in and out of costume – so that Daredevil (now apparently back in the old black costume) and Matt Murdock don’t reappear at the same time. There’s some genuine concern that it may take a long time for the gang to get back together, and that Matt may stay “hidden” for several episodes, and I think those concerns may be valid. I wouldn’t give it more than, say, the first third of the season though, since Wilson Fisk is not going to be spending much time on destroying the life of someone he believes to be dead. And, considering that there has to be some kind of quality life for Wilson Fisk to destroy, you’d have to assume that Matt will at least be lulled into some sense of getting his life back on track, before things start unraveling again.

Much of the point of Born Again, if you want get down to the essence of the story, is that it’s Matt’s life that’s being attacked, more so than Daredevil’s. I can see them taking their time with this, but spending too much time on the big return seems counterproductive. For instance, what point is there to Karen getting to tell her story, and Matt not even being there to find out? But maybe I’m overly optimistic.

Will there be a subway scene?

Daredevil strains and fails to find Bullseye in the subway in Daredevil #169, by Frank Miller

I would be willing to put some serious money on there being a subway scene in this season. Specifically one that involves Bullseye, because that battle is one of the most iconic in the history of these two characters. One thing that might affect how it plays out though is that the Netflix version of the character doesn’t appear to be very sensitive to noise, the way he is in the comics, and that’s kind of an important element of the scene. Any other famous Bullseye moments you’re counting on seeing in the show?

Though, while we’re on the topic of Bullseye, I’m not at all counting on anyone very close to Matt (i.e. Karen or Foggy) being killed off this season. Not because I think that the creators don’t have it in them to break people’s hearts, but because I suspect there will be additional seasons of the show and Daredevil’s supportive cast is already small enough to fit in a utility closet. I know people are saying that Bullseye has to do something to make it really personal for Matt, but we’re also talking about a character who literally feels he’s responsible for everyone. Hurt people in Hell’s Kitchen and you’ll be hurting Matt. Though if you want to make it really painful, maybe have Bullseye kill off Sister Maggie? Yup, I went there.

Will Vanessa be kidnapped?

Okay, this may sound like an odd one, but as soon as we got confirmation, sort of, that Vanessa was returning, my thoughts went immediately to her really creepy disappearance during the Frank Miller run where she’s kidnapped by “mole people” who live underground. I’m not expecting anything of the sort, but with Vanessa back in the picture, I do expect some kind of threatening situation for her to be in. I realize that the whole damsel in distress thing is old and tired, but there has to be some kind of pressure applied to Wilson Fisk as well, for maximum tension, and I’m sure the writers can come up with something. I really like Ayelet Zurer as an actor, so I’m happy to see her back, whatever her story brings.

What exactly is Karen hiding?

As mentioned, I don’t think that Karen will develop a drug addiction during the course of this season, but she will most definitely deal with some pretty dark stuff. I’m actually very excited to find out what she’s been hiding all this time. And I can’t wait to go to Fagan Corners, Vermont! Of course, the last time we visited that place in the comics was decades ago, and involved a rather convoluted storyline in which Karen’s father was the inventor of something called the “cobalt bomb,” and also the villain Death’s Head.

I don’t expect there to be a literal Death’s Head, but would squeal with joy if there were at least a background shot of a pub by that name or something similar. If there isn’t, you’ve dropped the ball Netflix people! If you want a refresher on this crazy story, go to this post, where I mention it among my “seeing goofs.” It also comes up in this Wacky Powers post. Below are panels from Daredevil #56, by Roy Thomas, and Gene Colan.

Karen gets off the train in her home town of Fagan Corner.

Everything else

I really meant to cover a lot more stuff in this post, but it’s getting late, and I really want to get it out there so we can cover the rest in the comment section. And I know I haven’t been great at contributing in the comment sections lately, but I promise to catch up. 😉

However, before clicking on the “publish” button, let me mention some of these things briefly:

  • Foggy’s career – It appears as if Foggy may find reason to reassess his career goals in light of Jeri Hogarth getting the boot from her own firm. I doubt he’d be anxious to go with her, but staying behind with the mean partners may not be such a sweet deal either. And, if there’s ever going to be a Nelson & Murdock to go back to, things need to change. I would love the chance to see Hogarth getting involved in legally raising Matt from the “dead” though, as she has some experience in that field (see Iron Fist).
  • Sister Maggie – What kind of liberties will they take with her? Are they going for something more traditional or the kick-ass nun version from the Daredevil, volume four? What will her reasons be for walking out on Jack and Matt?
  • Marci Stahl – I like Marci. She’s irreverent, and this kind of show needs that. I’m guessing we might see more of her, especially if, they’re looking for way to “pad” the story (not necessarily in a bad way) before getting everyone reunited. Also, the cast needs to grow, and giving a bigger role to characters that have already been introduced is a way to to do that.
  • Will Claire make an appearance? – My guess is no.
  • Other characters – Will anyone interesting emerge as a new Wesley type character? Will we see Josie? What about Blake Towers? (My guess is yes). Will there be a police officer (I can’t imagine it would be Brett), who will sell out in some way when it comes to Matt/Daredevil, along the lines of what happens in Born Again in the comic?

Well, the list could obviously go on, but I think I’ll hand the reins over to you, my esteemed readership. Take it away!

Christine Hanefalk

Christine Hanefalk

Based in Stockholm, Sweden, Christine is a die-hard Daredevil fan who launched The Other Murdock Papers in 2007 to share her passion for Matt Murdock and his friends with other fans.

38 comments

  1. At this point, Claire’s role as connective tissue between the shows has concluded. She wasn’t in The Punisher nor was she in Jessica Jones season 2. Not to mention, she’s now living with Luke in Harlem, and it might be too difficult to think of reasons for her to come down to Hell’s Kitchen and not involve Luke. (Plus, now that Karen and Foggy know Matt’s secret, Claire’s duties as a confidante to Matt have been rendered a bit obsolete)

  2. I’ve stopped trying to guess how it’ll all unfold. I’m glad they resisted doing any direct adaptation of comic arcs and just taken inspiration from, and homaged scenes from iconic stories. Makes it much more fun not knowing how the series will unfold.

    As cliche as it may be, I think I’d prefer amnesiac Matt to him having totally abandoned both sides of his life and “hiding” out. Or maybe they’ll pick up right after Defenders without a lot of time passage.

    I also really hope they go with a more traditional portrayal of Maggie.

    1. ”I’m glad they resisted doing any direct adaptation of comic arcs and just taken inspiration from, and homaged scenes from iconic stories. Makes it much more fun not knowing how the series will unfold.”

      Very much this. I honestly don’t understand people who want stories they know the ending to. We already have those stories.

  3. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with Maggie. I literally squeed when she was mentioned at the end of Defenders.

    I’m also a sucker for a good amnesia storyline, cheesy though they may be.

  4. I agree with you about Born Again. I think this season will have Kingpin discover Matt’s identity, but a lot of the other elements don’t fit. The biggest thing is that he’s already pretty much hit rock bottom. There’s not much for the Kingpin to do there. Also, Fisk isn’t quite in the same position he is in Born Again.

    I hadn’t thought about the subway scene. I really hope so. Daredevil #169 may be my favorite issue and it’s because of that scene. I don’t know if they’ll go quite in that direction, but I’d love to see an homage to it.

  5. “Or maybe they’ll pick up right after Defenders without a lot of time passage.”

    @Tate – I actually have posited that Karen’s abrupt vanishing from The Punisher after the hotel episode was, in-universe, the result of her learning Matt was alive.

    @Christine – Agree with you about Marci. It’d be nice to see her get some interactions with Matt and with Karen.

  6. If no Bullseye then the writers or production crew members don’t earn points. I would also like to have Typhoid Mary as a villain.

  7. This is a minor one, but seeing as I think Matt and Karen are going to go back to dating during season 3, part of me kinda hopes that they’ll make Karen’s little remark from the first episode of season 1 when she was serving Matt and Foggy her lasagna into foreshadowing: “So I know it’s not much in the form of repayment, but it is, uh, my grandmother’s recipe, and she made me promise only to serve it to my future husband.” Admittedly, that was a nice nod to the love triangle that Matt, Karen and Foggy were in the early comics. But seeing how the show has gone with giving Matt and Karen the slow burn treatment (compared to the other shows, where the romance arcs are a little more accelerated), I can totally see season 3 ending with Matt and Karen being engaged. They’ve certainly set things up for Karen to be a vital part of Matt’s Daredevil activities, now that she’s carrying out Ben Urich’s comics duties.

    In fact, when it comes to the trio reuniting, it’s more likely that Matt will just reunite with one member at first, and the other will come later. My guess is that Karen is probably going to learn first, probably by the second episode, due to the need for Matt to have someone to talk to, while Foggy and Marci will not learn until later on, by which point Fisk will be already making moves against them. (It’s important to note that Fisk was more or less declaring war on Nelson & Murdock as a whole when he threatened Matt in prison, given how he talks about how “When I finally get out of this cage, I will dismantle the lives of the two amateurs THAT PUT ME IN HERE!! You, Mr. Murdock, and Franklin Percy Nelson!” So I’m thinking that it’s very possible Fisk will start by making moves against Foggy, seeing as Foggy has more to lose than Matt at this point in time.)

  8. I would prefer not to have an amnesia-detour. It is hard for me to imagine a brain damage that is so selective that his memory is wiped out but allows Matt to function as Daredevil.
    My favourite version would be Foggy and Marci having founded their own law firm and Matt contacting his friends as soon as he is physically able to do so. But then he would have to earn the privilege to join them.
    But I would not mind seeing Claire helping to nurse Matt back to health. 🙂
    Hopefully they stop shouting at each other. I really want to see Matt back in “home base”, united with his friends and pacticing law with Foggy.

  9. I am betting we get some variation of Matt getting a new suit like in Born Again. Fisk utilizes Melvin to create (or possibly Melvin already had a new one for Matt that he never got to give him) DD suit. Then has someone, possibly Bullseye, pose as DD in order to destroy his reputation and/or drawn Murdock out. That would give us a great scene of Murdock fighting “himself” and then of course he takes back the suit after defeating his opponent. And if it was Bullseye would give a nice homage to those stories where Bullseye dressed as DD.

  10. @Nora – I totally buy that Foggy and Marci might repeat what Matt and Foggy did when leaving Landman & Zack. And if it leads to a firm called Stahl, Nelson & Murdock, even better. Marci is the only other protagonist lawyer character in Daredevil on the side of the good guys outside of Matt and Foggy. She deserves a larger role, and from interviews and social media, Amy Rutberg has given the impression that that very much is the plans for Marci.

  11. Do you think Bullseye will be the hitman hired by Fisk to come after Matt and Foggy? Or will he be independent?

  12. I think this Bullseye is more likely to be a guy with a double life. An FBI agent by day/assassin by night seems like a dark mirror of Matt.

  13. ”An FBI agent by day/assassin by night seems like a dark mirror of Matt.”

    Good point. It wouldn’t surprise me if Bullseye and Fisk have parallel plots in the beginning and merge only later.

  14. I’m kinda interested in finding out what’s happening to Matt’s apartment, seeing as that was never discussed in The Defenders epilogue. I’m assuming Matt will still be living there for season 3, since I don’t think the set people would want to build a new set for Matt’s apartment. So I have to wonder, is Foggy paying rent on Matt’s place? Danny paying for it? Are Karen and Foggy doing something to pretend Matt is still alive or something? Too many questions there, and maybe the first episode or two of season 3 will explain that.

  15. @Donald: It would be a shame if Matt lost his apartment, with its convenient roof access. I’m guessing he gets to keep it, unless the showrunners and writers have decided to add homelessness to the troubles he’ll have to contend with in season 3.

  16. @Martha: Yeah, that roof access is a big dealbreaker here. I’ve seen many theories on what might be going on with Matt’s things, and they all hinge upon how Matt’s “death” is being treated, and whether Karen and Foggy are pretending Matt is still alive (on a lengthy sabbatical) or not. Personally, I doubt Matt will be made homeless at all, and that he’ll likely live with Karen or Foggy if that ends up being the case (Karen, more likely, given what I’ve said in previous posts about how I feel that Matt’s relationship with Karen’s going to get a lot of focus in season 3 now that Elektra’s gone (for the time being) and the Hand are gone as well).

  17. Do we know for sure that Matt will be gone for a longer time period? Maybe he regains conciousness after only a couple of days? Though I would love to see him moving to Karen’s place 🙂

  18. No, we don’t. Just because we don’t know how long the time gaps are between these shows.

  19. Something to speculate at this point, is whether Daredevil season 3 or Iron Fist season 2 will be coming out first. Daredevil started filming a full month before Iron Fist, yet Iron Fist wrapped about a week prior to Daredevil.

    Currently, I’m betting that Daredevil season 3 will be released first, seeing as it’s been over two years since season 2 of that show came out, as opposed to just 15 months since Iron Fist season 1 (combined with the fact that Danny has had two outings in between Iron Fist‘s first two seasons, with The Defenders and his cameo in Luke Cage season 2). And seeing as Daredevil was the show that launched the Netflix corner of the MCU, I’m betting Marvel doesn’t want to make those impatient fans wait any longer than necessary. Of course, we won’t know for sure what the release plans are like until after Luke Cage season 2 comes out. But I’m betting they’ll probably be September for Daredevil Season 3, December for Iron Fist Season 2, and March 2019 for The Punisher Season 2.

    On a semi-related note, I’m currently also guessing that they’ll have a Daredevil season 3 panel at SDCC in July. Its lineup will probably be something along the lines of Charlie Cox, Deborah Ann Woll, Elden Henson, Amy Rutberg, Wilson Bethel, Jay Ali, Ayelet Zurer, Vincent D’Onofrio, Erik Oleson and Jeph Loeb.

  20. When it comes to the apartment, I bet it will still be there when Matt comes back, for no other reason than that Danny seems to like to pay people’s rents for them, usually a few months at a time. It could be something as simple as not wanting to put any stress on Foggy, in particular, to go and clean it out right away.

    Regarding the release schedule, it seems that IMDB lists the second season’s episodes as coming out in 2019. I figure that has to come from somewhere.

    As for how long Matt will have been gone when he returns, I hope it’s not very long, but fear that it might be a while. Jessica Jones, season two, is quiet on the subject, and the omission isn’t conspicuous since she isn’t interacting with any other Defender. Maybe Luke Cage will give some indication, though, since it’s weird for Luke and Danny to interact and make no mention of what happened at Midland Circle. And the amount of time that’s passed since then can be gauged by Misty’s progress (how long does an arm stump have to heal before you put a high-tech prosthesis on it…?).

    On the other hand, Matt may well have come back from the dead to Karen and Foggy before the other Defenders know about it so there may be considerable overlap, timewise, between DDS3 and LCS2.

  21. I hope Matt does get to keep his apartment. I feel like it’s become quite iconic in the Netflix series, and it’s only beneficial that Foggy and Karen (and the rest of the Defenders) keep up the appearance that Matt is still alive as long as possible so that his disappearance doesn’t coincide so directly with Daredevil’s disappearance.

    I like an earlier commenters theory that Karen’s abrupt disappearance from the Punisher is due to her finding out Matt’s still alive. I don’t think she’s been confirmed for season 2 of the Punisher, so it would make sense that she’s too caught up in her own Daredevil story to interact with Frank. Since Karen being threatened and Matt not showing up only makes sense in the context that he’s “dead”, I’d like to see that that is the thing that finally draws him out of hiding to contact Karen and/or other people from his life.

    The one thing that really has me concerned is that Matt appears to be back to his old black suit. It really offered no protection originally, unless the new suit has armor actually sewn into it the way Fisk’s business suits had.

    I don’t see Karen or Foggy getting killed off this season. If anyone dies, I was thinking it would be someone who would be emotionally crushing to our Scooby Gang, but not one of them, similar to Ben’s role. Perhaps Marci? Although the idea of Maggie dying at Bullseye’s hands rather intriguing..I wouldn’t put it past the show to kill off Foggy or Karen at some point, but I think it wouldn’t be until much farther down the line, in the last planned season or two, though I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility of fake death/temporary Witness Protection at some point maybe in season 4. With over 6 decades of source material and the front runner of the Marvel tv shows, I would think Netflix would want to keep Daredevil going through at least 5 or 6 seasons, similar to House of Cards and Orange is the New Black’s runs. It seems like Matt and Karen are being set up to become quite the dynamic duo, both professionally and romantically, so I am a little worried Foggy will become irrelevant in the show. Hopefully he has a strong storyline of his own that this doesn’t become the case.

    One final note, I think at some point Matt is going to be outed as the Daredevil and be arrested and Foggy will have to defend him. It surely can’t be a coincidence that he specializes in defending vigilantes, so his biggest case would be utilizing everything all his experience as a vigilante lawyer to defend Matt. With so much ground to cover in season 3, I don’t think it will happen now. This could be a major plot line of season 4 if another season is ordered.

  22. “Jessica Jones, season two, is quiet on the subject, and the omission isn’t conspicuous since she isn’t interacting with any other Defender.”

    There was an interview where Melissa Rosenberg mentioned that the writing for Jessica Jones season 2 began before the writing on The Defenders started. That’s why all references in-show only establish that that season takes place after Daredevil season 2 (Foggy’s one-scene cameo) and after Iron Fist season 1 (Jeri namedrops Rand in her first scene when talking with her partners, and later when she’s blackmailing Chao and Benowitz in the last episode).

    “As for how long Matt will have been gone when he returns, I hope it’s not very long, but fear that it might be a while.”

    I too would like to see Matt get back in touch with Karen and Foggy as soon as he’s capable of doing so, simply because it would just not look good of Matt to delay any longer than is necessary. I’m with you, they’ll probably skip over most of Matt’s recovery until near when he’s about recovered and ready to go back out into the world, maybe even picking up with the “Get Maggie, he’s awake” clip we got in The Defenders. They’ll probably have a few flashbacks during Matt’s recovery, like a flashback of his mom and why she left Matt and Jack. Maybe they’ll even backtrack to show us how the rest of Matt’s reveal conservation to Karen at the end of season 2 went down (depending on whether or not Karen is the first to learn Matt is back), but regardless, I think he’ll be out of the convent by the end of the first episode, and, be back in touch with at least Karen by that point (I also agree with you, it’ll hopefully take some time for Fisk’s machinations to take shape, since he’s playing a long game here.)

    Related to Matt’s apartment: I’m kinda curious how Matt’s gonna restart his lawyer career, depending on how long he’s presumed “dead”. Whatever the writers do, it’s probably gonna be a big uphill battle on that front just as much as taking on Fisk will be.

  23. “I like an earlier commenters theory that Karen’s abrupt disappearance from the Punisher is due to her finding out Matt’s still alive. I don’t think she’s been confirmed for season 2 of the Punisher, so it would make sense that she’s too caught up in her own Daredevil story to interact with Frank. Since Karen being threatened and Matt not showing up only makes sense in the context that he’s “dead”, I’d like to see that that is the thing that finally draws him out of hiding to contact Karen and/or other people from his life.”

    @Mandy: Yeah, Deborah Ann Woll hasn’t been confirmed for the second season of The Punisher. In fact, she’s actually thrown some stealthy shade at people trying to ask her about it on her Twitter feed (most of the askers, from what I could tell, appeared to be “Kastle” shippers). That said, they might be keeping her appearance under wraps (though I don’t know how they’re accomplishing that when there’s been so much leaking coming out of the set of The Punisher season 2).

    Personally, I wasn’t too fond of Karen’s part in The Punisher season 1 since she didn’t really get any of the autonomy she gets in Daredevil, and her primary contribution to the story was as a plot device to advance Frank’s storyline (by helping him identify Micro, and later on being put in danger primarily to give Frank a reason to go after Lewis Wilson). Really, her part in The Punisher could’ve been cut with very few alterations to the overall plot.

    I also don’t imagine Frank coming back for season 3 of Daredevil, now that he has his own show.

    “The one thing that really has me concerned is that Matt appears to be back to his old black suit. It really offered no protection originally, unless the new suit has armor actually sewn into it the way Fisk’s business suits had. “

    Charlie Cox has talked about wanting to see more done with Melvin, so I think we should worry that Fisk might find out about the work Melvin has been doing for Matt and make “arrangements” concerning Betsy Beatty.

    ” I am a little worried Foggy will become irrelevant in the show. Hopefully he has a strong storyline of his own that this doesn’t become the case.”

    Maybe they do what the comics did, and have Foggy run against Blake Tower for District Attorney, which would actually a pretty ample way to put him in Fisk’s crosshairs.

  24. Too soon for Born Again. He’s already going through a down period. It would be more of an impact if you’re doing good first, then have a downfall…,

  25. “When it comes to the apartment, I bet it will still be there when Matt comes back, for no other reason than that Danny seems to like to pay people’s rents for them, usually a few months at a time. It could be something as simple as not wanting to put any stress on Foggy, in particular, to go and clean it out right away.”

    Am I the only one who remembers that Matt got a great deal on that apartment because of the annoying light-flashing billboard just outside? The apartment will likely still be available for the same reason he got it in the first place – almost no one else wants it.

    Combine a reluctance to clean it out immediately, the possibility Matt might have paid some rent in advance, and sighted people not being eager to rent the place and having it available starts to make a lot of sense.

  26. Fisk’s prison pal Stewart seems to be shaping up as the new Wesley. Also, first time commenting. I’m a diehard Daredevil fan and I recently stumbled upon this site. Love it! Your work is a pleasure to read. Admire your perspective and its nice to dive into the viewpoints of a fellow DD aficionado.

  27. @Rob: Actually, Stewart Finney seems more set up to become the replacement for Owlsley, given how he mentioned that he used to be an accountant before he got put in prison. It’s Benjamin Donovan who seems to be set up to be the new Wesley, given he’s handling Fisk’s outside assets as well as the protection fund that Fisk set up for Vanessa. (Not to mention, Donovan’s also appearing in Luke Cage season 2, and might be a bit of a middleman between Fisk and Mariah)

  28. Well, they made some Matt references in Luke Cage season 2, with Claire bringing up Matt while helping Misty with therapy, her later telling Luke he’s acting more and more like Matt, Foggy suggesting that Luke wear a mask like Matt did, etc. But they didn’t establish how much time has passed between Midland Circle and the start of Luke Cage season 2.

  29. @ Donald: “Certainly, we know Matt isn’t yet back, given remarks by Claire in episode 1 and Foggy in episode 5 [of Luke Cage season 2]. (Realistically, I would hope Matt’s recovered by this point; one headcanon I had is that he is, and Karen’s been hiding him)”

    This dovetails quite nicely with a pet theory of mine: Matt doesn’t disclose he has survived, he is found – by Karen. At the end of The Defenders, Karen is still holding out hope that Matt has somehow survived. This could be simply the “denial” stage of grief. But even if it is, it would be entirely in character for Karen to keep digging until she finds the truth – or, in this case, Matt.

    This is pure speculation on my part, and we probably won’t see anything like this in season 3. But “the game [of speculating] is fun.”

  30. This dovetails quite nicely with a pet theory of mine: Matt doesn’t disclose he has survived, he is found – by Karen. At the end of The Defenders, Karen is still holding out hope that Matt has somehow survived. This could be simply the “denial” stage of grief. But even if it is, it would be entirely in character for Karen to keep digging until she finds the truth – or, in this case, Matt.

    @Martha: I’m guessing, though, going off your theory, that Karen doesn’t actually find Matt again until sometime after The Punisher season 1.

  31. @ Donald: I don’t know when The Punisher season one takes place in relation to Daredevil season 3. In fact, their timelines may not even be connected. I came across a video put out by Netflix in which one of the showrunners for The Punisher states that The Punisher is proceeding on its own timeline, outside the timeline of The Defenders (and, by implication, the four individual series). It can be viewed here: https://www.inverse.com/article/39308-netflix-marvel-punisher-defenders-timeline

    In light of this comment, I can’t say whether season one of The Punisher takes place before, after, or at the same time as Daredevil season 3. When I watched The Punisher, I didn’t spot any clues that might shed some light on this question. (Of course, we don’t know at this point when Daredevil season 3 takes place, either).

  32. @Martha: The Punisher season 1 definitely takes place during the time where Matt is presumed dead since if Matt were still around, I get the impression that he probably would have gotten involved in protecting Karen after Lewis threatened her.

  33. It crossed my mind recently, but depending on how long Matt’s absence lasts, he’ll have to do some explaining. But I keep thinking, given how Daredevil has emphasized Matt and Fisk as being on very parallel journeys, I can totally imagine Matt’s response to Karen asking him why he came back from the dead, as being something similar to what Fisk said on his first date with Vanessa: “Time and distance, they afford a certain clarity. I realized that this city was a part of me, that it was in my blood. And I would do anything to make it a better place for people like you.”

  34. I can see them taking their time with this, but spending too much time on the big return seems counterproductive. For instance, what point is there to Karen getting to tell her story, and Matt not even being there to find out? But maybe I’m overly optimistic.

    Yeah, at this point, it makes sense that most of Matt’s recovery time will happen offscreen. A short time skip to the end of Matt’s recovery and his return to Hell’s Kitchen makes perfect sense. Anything that happened in the interim can be reserved for flashbacks.

    Regarding an earlier theory about Karen finding Matt, I’m thinking maybe her wanting to find Matt will also partially be “so he can testify at Fisk’s trial,” given Fisk appears to be going on trial at the start of season 3 and getting acquitted there is how he’ll get out.

  35. With regard to the time needed for Matt’s recovery, I am wondering how serious his physical injuries are. When we see him at the end of The Defenders, he’s not on life support in an ICU. His visible injuries don’t look any worse than those he sustained in the fight with Nobu and Fisk in season 1. Of course, he could have more serious internal injuries, or a head injury, that we can’t see. But if that is the case, surely they would be doing more, treatment-wise (he doesn’t even have an IV). So if Matt doesn’t reappear within a few weeks, either he’s more seriously injured than he appears to be, or he’s decided to stay “dead” for some reason.

    That being said, the show’s creators may simply have decided to use a famous image from the comic books to show that Matt survived. It may not have been intended to give the viewers any meaningful information about the extent of his injuries, or how long his recovery might take.

  36. Karen is appearing in The Punisher Season 2, so no need to worry about her being killed off here. (I wonder if they’ll get Matt to make a cameo or two on TPS2, depending on how Matt and Karen’s relationship unfolds in DDS3)

  37. I have another theory about what they might be doing with Foggy: I think that he’ll run against Blake Tower for District Attorney, though it will end with him conceding the race to Tower and reopening Nelson & Murdock at the end of the season with Matt and Marci (and we get “Stahl, Nelson & Murdock” in the process). Such a story arc would give Foggy a lot more independence from Matt. It would also put Foggy in a place where he’s vulnerable to attacks from Fisk. It would give Tower and Marci more to do (after being underused in season 2), and would tie nicely together with Matt and Karen’s romantic and professional arcs (Matt rebuilding his career, and Karen becoming the new Ben Urich). Hell, I think that running for District Attorney is the sort of thing Foggy would believe to be an appropriate way to honor Matt’s legacy as Daredevil (although I can also see Marci being the one to talk him into entering the race, on the grounds that she’ll ride his coattails and get some name recognition that will further her own career).

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.