Defenders developments

Apr 17, 2016

Defenders developments

Apr 17, 2016

Hey gang! Sorry for getting completely sucked into work over the last week or so. Well, last weekend was actually spent babysitting my nephew on Saturday and co-hosting a Daredevil season two marathon on Sunday, so it wasn’t all work. 😉

Anyway, before getting back to my single issue reviews (I’ll begin work on episode five later today, so it should be good to go tomorrow), let’s talk about the developments on the Defenders front. Earlier this week, Charlie Cox revealed that filming for the Defenders was going to begin later this year. Combined with the lack of any information on a potential third season of Daredevil, I took this to mean that if we do get a third season at all, it will have to wait until after the Defenders comes out. Obviously, none of the actors involved in any of the Marvel Netflix series (presumably) have contracts that extend beyond the filming of the combined Defenders series, but given the success of these series thus far, and the fact that everyone seems to be enjoying themselves, negotiating a deal with the core cast of Daredevil for a third season to come out some time in 2018 doesn’t seem unreasonable.

When I posted the link above to the TOMP Facebook page, I made no secret of that fact that I found it a bit disappointing. To be clear, I realize that we were very lucky to get a second season at all, since that was not part of the initial plan, but I feel that season two – much more so than season one – seemed to beg for a next chapter. In terms of quality, season two was, in my view, the better season, but it’s also one that leaves you emotionally exhausted – and conflicted – at the end. It’s an end that basically makes you think “this can’t be the end,” “this can’t be where these beloved characters end up in relation to each other.” The events of season two beg to be “mended” in some ways. There is outstanding conflict that needs resolution in order for the conflict to feel meaningful, and the story to feel complete.

With the announcement Friday that the two showrunners of season two had been picked as the show runners for the Defenders series, I have to say was relieved. Not only have these guys proven that they can tell parallel stories involving different characters well – this was something I felt was better executed this season compared to the first – I’m hoping that this means we can get an emotionally satisfying resolution to Matt Murdock’s story, in the event that a third season never materializes.

I’ll make sure to follow this (ongoing) story as best I can, but I’ll end here for now so I can get started on the next post. I’d love to hear what you think about this though. Without having seen Luke Cage or Iron Fist yet, it’s difficult to imagine what we can expect when all these characters come together in the same show, but what are your hopes for the future?


  1. Mike Murdock

    I have to agree with your thoughts. I wasn’t initially opposed to Defenders happening before Daredevil but the way the season ended begged to be resolved in a Daredevil show. The showrunners for Defenders gives me hope that they know what they’re doing and can ease that transition so, when we come back, it isn’t quite as awkward.

    That being said, if you had asked me who I wanted to helm the Defenders, I’d have said “someone fresh.” I don’t want the Defenders to be “Daredevil and Friends.” There are rumors that he’s going to be the one who assembles the team and I’m not entirely sure I want that (to me, Daredevil is not much of a team player). If anything, I would like Luke Cage to lead the team since he’s at least led a version of the Avengers in the comics. Still, it appears Drew Goddard may have a non-figurehead role and Daredevil’s writing team did a great job, so I’m looking forward to the Defenders.

  2. Christine Hanefalk

    @Mike Murdock:

    “There are rumors that he’s going to be the one who assembles the team and I’m not entirely sure I want that (to me, Daredevil is not much of a team player). If anything, I would like Luke Cage to lead the team since he’s at least led a version of the Avengers in the comics.”

    I heard this rumor as well (and maybe I should have addressed it in the post). I think it all depends on how this is done. I don’t necessarily see Daredevil as the one who will be leading the team. In the only team-up (sort of) we’ve seen him have to date, it was mainly Elektra who took on that role, at least initially. I read it more as him asking the others for help, which doesn’t necessarily put him in the position as leader once the band actually gets together. If anything, Matt asking for help sounds like him making a rational and healthy decision for once. After all, he’s all alone now, and the odds are that he might come across something that he’s not physically powerful enough to fight on his own (or even something where his senses are – gasp! – not enough for him to be able to plow ahead unaided). Since Matt is usually pretty awful at asking for help from anyone, in any way, I see this as a potentially interesting direction for the character to go in.

  3. Steve

    A third season of a standalone DD series would be excellent. I agree that Season 2 leaves many questions and very few answers.

    I had a hard time getting my head into Jessica Jones (my wife loved it), so I’ll have to see how things develop with Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Marvel’s shown they can handle team action on the small screen with Agents of SHIELD, so here’s hoping the DD/Defenders producing team can make it work with this group.

  4. TS

    I completely agree that I don’t see Matt as much of a team player and I have trouble imagining him taking a “leading” role in the Defenders.

    I also completely agree that I would be heartbroken if they left the story where it was at the end of Season 2! I really think if they had just resolved or even hinted at a resolution for a couple things in Episode 13, I would have liked the season much better as a whole. So I hope they’re able to tie things back together in the Defenders, but even if they do, I’m really hoping for a Season 3 of DD. Because 1) I can never get too much DD and 2) am I the only one who really wants to see more Matt Murdock vs. Wilson Fisk after their encounter in Season 2?

  5. Daniel

    I cant imagine them not doing a third season of DD. I am assuming that it will be an adaptation of Born Again. They already have a good set up for it with Matt cutting his ties to his friends, and they strongly hinted that Fisk is starting to put two and two together that Matt and DD are the same person. They are also continuing to hint at Karen’s past without fully revealing anything. And then there is the Elektra plot that was left dangling.

    But I really hope that the Defenders doesn’t try to cram in a resolution to all this for DD while still juggling JJ and Cage and Iron Fist. I can see them making reference to some of it but I think the show will focus on a new threat that the team has to come together to stop. In much the same way that the Avengers movies mention some stuff that is going on in the solo Capt. America and Thor movies but really doesn’t delve into all that stuff. But that doesn’t mean that DD and the others cant go through a good character arc and be in a different place emotionally at the end of the series. I also hope they continue to set up more stuff for the future. Maybe bring up the connection between the Rand cooperation and Matt’s accident, or start to connect the dots between Nuke and JJ powers and whether or not that connects to Rand and or Matt.

    It also might be cool if the Super Hero Registration Act from Captain America: Civil War is mentioned and effects the street level powered people from the Defenders.

  6. Donna

    Is it a wash out that they could still announce Season 3 for filming this summer before Defenders? Last year they announced Season 2 DD in late April for filming in July.

  7. Tate

    I would have rather Marvel decided to just scrap the whole “Defenders” thing as soon as Daredevil was a hit and just let the 4 shows exist on their own with the characters occasionally guest starring with each other. That wasn’t going to happen though. We were damn lucky to get this second season of Daredevil before Defenders as many have already said.

    Obviously having said that, I would much rather have a third season sooner than later, but honestly I think story wise this is the perfect time to do the Defenders. Now of course we don’t know what the Defenders will be about as far as villains or plot, but a few things regarding Matt’s world as it was left…

    1. Matt and Karen. They’ve got a long way to go in mending their relationship. I personally hope they don’t go right back to a romance, but him opening up to her and admitting, we assume/hope, the whole truth to her should go a long way in mending that. This could easily be explored in The Defenders without taking away from the “main” plot whatever it is.

    2 Matt and Foggy. They’ve got an even longer way to go, but since Foggy has basically jumped ship to Jessica Jones world now, it makes perfect sense to explore Matt and Foggy’s future in the Defenders. Maybe Foggy will see first hand how much bad shit is going down and that people like Matt are needed and stop being such a dick to his best friend.

    3. Kingpin. We and pretty much everyone is now assuming that we are headed towards a story inspired by Born Again, and may I just say… HELL YEAH! Fisk though is still in prison and that plot line may not materialize as quickly as we think anyway. I could see Fisk taking his time to plan and plot his takedown of Matt’s world (like he did in the original story actually). So I’m fine with that going on the back burner for now.

    4. The Hand/Elektra. This was mostly resolved for now. Yeah they’ve got Elektra’s body to resurrect, but I think we can assume they’ve retreated underground after this defeat given that Matt and Stick weren’t really concerned at the end. Unless… maybe they Hand will play a part in The Defenders. Perhaps Elektra will be resurrected possessed by the Beast/Demon and thats why Matt needs some help? Who knows. If not then I can easily see that plot coming back later rather than sooner.

    5 As far as Matt himself. What better way to have him start being a better hero than to start trusting and accepting help from others like him?

  8. NadineS

    I really think Hogart at the end of Season 2 was major foreshadowing for how the Defenders will come together. My guess is Foggy will be the common denominator that ties them together. I also believe that perhaps as Foggy works with Jessica or Luke, he will be a little more sympathetic toward Matt and better realize Matt’s motive in distancing himself. Ultimately, he will have to be more supportive anyway if The Hand’s work becomes more apparent. And in the end, hey, it’s Foggy- how long can he and Matt really stay apart?

  9. Christine Hanefalk

    Thank you all for the great comments thus far! I, too, think that it’ll be interesting to see how Foggy’s character grows with his wider exposure to other heroes.

    Another thing: With Karen becoming more and more of a Ben Urich character, there’s a lot of story potential there as well. Not only as someone who might reasonably appear in all the individual shows, but also as a confidante and source of information for Matt (the way Ben has often been in the comics). Then maybe some well-earned romantic development down the line.

    Regarding Wilson Fisk, I’m not at all sure that he is starting to connect Matt to Daredevil. The fact that he got a punch in while they met in prison proves absolutely nothing, and there’s really no other reason he would suspect anything. In fact, I think it would be an interesting twist to see him go after Matt because he hates Matt, the lawyer, for putting him away. In the comics, we learn that there is a reason that Fisk doesn’t let the world know that Matt is Daredevil after he finds out, but I’m not sure that would make sense in this show, and identity reveals are always a bit messy. Just a thought.

  10. Broomstick

    Tate says: “2 Matt and Foggy. They’ve got an even longer way to go, but since Foggy has basically jumped ship to Jessica Jones world now, it makes perfect sense to explore Matt and Foggy’s future in the Defenders. Maybe Foggy will see first hand how much bad shit is going down and that people like Matt are needed and stop being such a dick to his best friend.”

    I’ve long thought part of the reason Foggy is a “dick” to Matt is because he’s afraid for Matt. Those two guys really do love each other (non-romantically) and it hurts Foggy to see Matt get hurt. Seeing a loved one beat senseless or nearly hacked to death is not easy and something normal people want to avoid. Even if he knows Matt’s vigilantism is needed he’s not going to stop worrying and fearing for his friend.

    NadineS says: “I really think Hogart at the end of Season 2 was major foreshadowing for how the Defenders will come together. My guess is Foggy will be the common denominator that ties them together. I also believe that perhaps as Foggy works with Jessica or Luke, he will be a little more sympathetic toward Matt and better realize Matt’s motive in distancing himself.”

    I wonder if Foggy’s going to be the one who figures out everyone’s “secret identity” (yes, I know, most Marvel TV/movie heroes don’t have secret identifies in the traditional sense) and that is the means by which the four heroes are introduced? Or maybe Foggy and Claire together, since Claire is becoming first aid station for all these people.

  11. Giacomo

    Defenders could treat another story arc and when will end all, matt murdock will meet the consequences of the end of the second season. Defenders do not know how long, maybe time will be short as…
    (sorry for bad english)

  12. Daniel

    I think the scene with Fisk in the jail was meant as the first breadcrumb that starts him in the path to eventually figuring out that Matt is DD. It will probably be awhile before he figures it out, but I think the show is already laying out the path. But I do like that the show is building up a reason for Fisk to hate Matt as much as he hates DD. That aspect of Fisk being a villain for both sides of Matt’s double life is a unique approach for the show. It might help lead to Matt finding the balance between the two sides of himself. All the more reason why we need a third season. Not to mention they have to do Bullseye at some point.

  13. Jack Batlin

    Sweet Christmas, people! What’s with all the complaining about Defenders?! It’s got four heroes and who knows, could feature the return of Claire Temple, also known as the lovely Rosario Dawson. Obvs nothing’s been announced about her appearing on the show, but a loyal member of the Merry Marvel Marching Society can dream, can’t he?

  14. Jack Batlin

    And we could see Tricia Walker, known as the Hellcat who appeared in Jessica Jones!

  15. John Nicholson

    I hope that Hellcat is featured prominently in the Defenders show as well as she is really a core member of the Defenders from the source material. She is also in most of her comics incarnations a mix of matial arts and supernatural abiliites which fits the content of these Nextflix Marvel TV shows well.

  16. Chris

    They definitly plan on making another season of Daredevil. It’s been a huge success for Marvel and Netflix and its clearly been setup with Season 2. As for ‘The Defenders’ being announced it was probably stipulated in the contract with Netflix that it would be made at or with in a certain date, which appears to be by 2017. Searched for a good half hour as to where I read this but wasn’t able to find it again unfortunately. Ofcourse they’ve had a bit of wriggle room for things to progress a little more naturally storytelling-wise (hence Season 2 being before The Defenders) but this seems to be the most likely scenario.

  17. ml

    Wild speculation follows:

    I kinda figure Defenders will see Matt get his superhero mojo back on, whereas a season 3 (please God) would be him straightening out the Matt Murdock side of his life. In Defenders, he’ll learn lessons about playing well with others, and then he could go to Season 3 and apply them to his friends. He’s in a pretty low spot at the end of 2, and if they do a Born again thing, which seems to be set up in one form or another, he has to have something that Fisk can tear down. Maybe Elektra mentioned him in her will or something, and he’ll figure out how to do some lawyering while still Daredeviling.

    I’m hoping that the Hand stuff gets wrapped up in Defenders, but I doubt it will. It’d be nice for a season 3 to be more “Street level” and less mystical ninjas. I know the lack of phlebotnum was a big perk for me in the first season.

  18. John Nicholson

    I have just been wondering if any of the commenters or viewers of the posts on this topic/thread are actually fans of the Defenders comics. And by this I mean the original bronze age run of the Defenders comic that started in 1973 and ended about 1986. (before it became the ex-X-men and was promptly cancelled). Although it is the X-men that gets the bulk of the credit for introducing greater diversity and “strong female” characters to superhero comics, in my mind the Defenders did this first and in many ways did it better. At their best the Defenders comic was highly experimental for its time especially with Steve Gerber’s run with combined political satire, with an overall quirkiness that was very influential on later writers like Grant Morrison and Neil Gaiman. Later runs especially that of J.M. DeMatteis focused as much or more on character studies as superhero action stories, not unlike the Netflix Marvel shows have with Daredevil and Jessica Jones.

    Although many comic fans identify the Defenders with characters like Hulk, Sub-Mariner, and the SIlver Surfer, the latter two were hardly present in the comic after the first dozen issues, and the most interesting and longest lasting incarnation of the Defenders for me was the crux of Dr. Strange, Hulk, Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Hellcat with street level heroes as Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Moon Knight guest starring as associate Defenders on a frequent basis.

    With all the recent talk about deconstructing superhero tropes and narratives, the Defenders comic was the first mainstream comic to actually do this, being edgy, and spooky alternative to the Earth’s Mightiest Heroes narrative of the Avengers, which for me was rather predictable. Which is why I collected the Defenders and not the Avengers.

    In other words, I am hoping that the Netflix Defenders show is influenced as much by the Defenders comics in its choice of characters and themes as it is by the directive to unite Marvel’s street level NY superheroes together in a (NON)- team concept.

    What do the rest of you think?

  19. Daniel

    It’s official. John Bernthal is coming back as Frank Castle in a solo Punisher series!

  20. Daniel

    I didn’t read the article, but saw a headline that they are pushing the third season of Daredevil back to concentrate on the Defenders and other Marvel/Netflix shows. This is understandable and it all but says that we are going to get a third season. Its just probably going to be awhile.

  21. geb

    Hi y’all. Yeah, I am at this point now where most of you were, back then and there,

    It is a very frustrating thing, as mentioned, and difficult not to be an emotional “dik” when having to live and see your best friend (family virtually) sneeze you off and insist on doing it his way while you have to watch him repeatedly get the living tar scraped out of him before your eyes and remain helpless. All due to HIS bull-headedness. It’s just damn infuriating (and I’d root for Fog if he even took a swing at Matt)!

    That is a very insightful outlook, the significant crossroad pointed to by Nicolson about the multi-fold capacity of the original Defenders series maintaining a “make” or “break” position-cocked, for future audience perception toward Marvel’s capacity as a reliable entertainment provider.

    It, the endeavor Defenders, bears a subtle distinguishment which upon closer examination reveals, just by the very nature of the elements harking their inception into the comic media, that there is need for a form of down(er) to earth, more relative to and for the common people sanction with which we may more readily associate with.. what better time and what better broadcaster.

    Yes, agreed, here is a perfect opportunity to tune in with the fans, the newer especially, and to express the whys and hows for the desire and attempt toward “deconstruction” (as well put) and solid reconstruction toward the future. There is, if we look deep enough in this observation, an awareness of most of the views, both troubling us but also floating our faith, cited in and for our expectations from this highly anticipated series.

    I think and have faith that they can tie in all the loose ends of the previous shows and eliminate any doubtful aspects. Perhaps even a brief appearance of some of the Avengers for the sake of a contrast. For an as example, we hear the words “mysticism” and “religion”, and if we search and dwell, we may conclude that there is not SUCH a gap dividing the two.. and which Avenger would best serve as pilot conjuncting such avenues in a meaningful plot-sub-plot? Yes, Thor. And if even to then be shunned back among the mightier, as a sign of these times.


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