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Review: “Nelson v. Murdock” – Episode #10 of Marvel’s Daredevil

This episode review took much longer to get through than I had planned, I’m sorry about that! I’ve been pretty busy at work, but a big part of it is due to how I always feel like I have to brace myself whenever I watch this episode. As much as I love it – and I can totally relate to the many for whom this is their favorite – it’s also quite upsetting. For the review, I’ll try my very best to examine all the different angles, but I’ve had process it a bit more than I’ve had to for previous reviews. The remaining three episodes should be up before the end of the month though!

Recap

Matt, badly injured, wakes up in his apartment. When he tries to sit up, Foggy appears and cuts him off. Angry and hurt by what he’s found out about his best friend, Foggy tells Matt that Claire stiched him up, after Matt had prevented him from calling 911. The entire scene is incredibly tense, and before we cut to the intro, Foggy asks: “Are you even really blind?” I’d probably be asking that too.

Matt, badly injured, wakes up on his couch, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

Next, we flash back to Matt and Foggy’s first meeting. Foggy is registering for his classes when Matt knocks on the door. They get introduced and we learn that Foggy recognizes Matt’s name and remembers hearing about what happened to him as a kid. Foggy clearly believes that, with Matt at his side, his prospects with the fairer sex will improve. Matt seems a little overwhelmed by Foggy’s direct approach, but is also grateful that Foggy doesn’t treat him differently than he would anyone else.

Back in Matt’s apartment in the present, the two talk about Matt’s powers, and how he kept them a secret all those years, from everyone. Foggy is mad that he told Claire, but Matt explains that he didn’t have a choice. Foggy then asks whether Matt shot the cops and blew up those buildings. Matt is visibly hurt by the question and starts crying, saying it was all Fisk. Karen then calls on Matt’s phone, and neither of them pick it up. When she next calls Foggy, Matt pleads with him not to tell her, and Foggy concocts a lie, saying Matt was in a car accident.

Fisk and Gao meet alone. Gao tells him the story about the snake who tried to bite an elephant, and was betrayed by its ambition. Fisk asks whether he is supposed to be the snake or the elephant in the story, and the conversation turns to Nobu. Fisk makes excuses for Nobu’s death by pointing out that he volunteered for the task. When the topic turns to the masked man, Fisk is forced to admit that he hasn’t found his body. Gao then wonders when Fisk’s ambition will turn to her. Fisk says she’s different from the others, in that she has his respect. Gao points out that Fisk used to be of a singular mind, but that he’s now pulled in two directions by the love in his life. Gao, now in English, says there is conflict within him, and she encourages him to choose sides, between savior and opressor. “Choose wisely or others shall choose for you.”

Fisk and Gao meet, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

Ben is at his wife’s side at the hospital when she wakes up. They talk about his most recent story and their life together. After a long conversation, in the middle of a kiss, Doris’ mind seems to go blank and she is suddenly surprised to see him, which hits him hard. He is then called outside by the hospital administrator we know from earlier episodes. Ben gets negative news about the extension he had applied for and now has to explore other options for her care.

In Matt’s apartment, Foggy gets Matt’s gear out of the chest in the closet. When asked, Matt tells him that he ordered everything off the internet. Foggy then wonders about where Matt learned how to fight and Matt tells him about Stick. Foggy is understandably incredulous.

In another flashback scene, Matt and Foggy, are in their last semester of law school. They are walking along after a night of drinking. They joke about how Matt should study less, and Foggy study more. They talk about their future, and the Greek girl Matt dated briefly. When asked about whether or not he gets “the spins” when drinking alcohol, Matt comes very close to saying a little too much about his senses. They then talk about Matt’s first drink, his dad, and Foggy’s family coming to graduation. Foggy imagines a glorious future for them with big fancy offices, and they settle on the name “Nelson and Murdock.”

Ben is in his office, looking at folders about hospice care for his wife. Ellison offers him an editorial position for a different section of the newspaper, and mentions that it has better benefits. Ben says he’ll think about it. Next, Karen is entering the Nelson & Murdock offices, returning from a run to the county clerk’s office. She tries calling Foggy, recording a message saying it’s important, when Ben startles her by coming out of one of the side offices. He gives her his box of cards and newspaper clippings, and says that he’s taking time off to take care of his wife. Karen tells Ben about a nursing home she’s heard about upstate, and offers him to take a ride with her.

Owlsley chastises Fisk for Nobu being burned alive, as the two of them and Wesley get ready for an event. Fisk wants Owlsley to talk to Gao, to reassure her that everything is fine. Owlsley and Fisk then talk about Vanessa. Owlsley is quite up front about his concerns regarding the distractions in Fisk’s life.

Back in Matt’s apartment, Foggy gets a call from Mahoney, who says that the junkie who killed Elena has been found dead, taking a dive off a building. Foggy confronts Matt about it, and Matt denies having anything to do with it, saying that he’s never killed anyone. Matt admits that he wanted to kill Fisk, though, after what happened with Elena, and that he got hurt after going to the warehouse with the intention of killing him.

Matt explaining to Foggy what made him put on a mask, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

We flash back to the more recent past: Matt and Foggy’s internship at Landman and Zack. Seated at a large conference table as part of a legal team, their firm is looking to bring a countersuit against a man who’s developed a serious disease through his work at a Roxxon-owned plant, claiming that he had breached his contract by presumably disclosing trade secrets. During the hearing, Matt discovers that the man is telling the truth. Later, when Foggy has learned that they have been offered positions at the firm after their internship, Matt instead wants out. Foggy reluctantly agrees that Landman and Zack may not be the place for them after all.

Back in the present, Foggy is at the window of Matt’s apartment while Matt is resting on his couch. Matt confronts him about wanting to say something, because he can always tell when Foggy is about to. Foggy replies “I really don’t” and we cut to Ben and Karen who are taking a ride in Ben’s car. They talk about Doris, and how Karen hadn’t realized how bad things were. They talk about hard times and secrets, and we get further indications that Karen is hiding some pretty heavy things from her past (some of which Ben probably doesn’t know about, even after his previous background check on her). When they pull up to the retirement home, Ben realizes right away that it’s out of his price range, but Karen insists they take a look around. She is clearly up to something.

Back with Matt and Foggy, Foggy is now yelling at Matt (seemed like there was something he wanted to say, after all). He wants to know how Matt went from just having heightened senses to doing what he does now. Matt tells the story about how he used to listen to the sirens as a kid, and only later learned how many sirens there were. Shortly after they left Landman and Zack, Matt heard the cries of a girl who was being molested by her father. Matt tells Foggy he caught up with him one night and attacked him. We the cut to the scene of Matt jumping him, and punching him over and over until his fists are covered in blood. Foggy then confronts Matt about all the years he must have kept training, suggesting that there is more to it, that Matt maybe can’t stop himself. Matt then flat out admits that he doesn’t want to stop.

Karen and Ben talk with Wilson Fisk's mother, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

At the retirement home, Karen suggests they talk to one of the people who live their. Clearly, she has someone special in mind, and they enter the room of a Mrs. M. Vistain. Karen prods her about her past, with Ben growing increasingly uncomfortable. When Karen asks about her former husbands, specifically the first one, Mrs. Vistain starts talking and we realize that this is Wilson Fisk’s mother. And, she’s admitting to some pretty horrible things.

Wilson Fisk, with Vanessa at his side, gives a speech at a fundraising event for Fisk’s charity. Next, there is mingling and Wesley, Vanessa and Owlsley talk about politics when people suddenly drop all around them, foaming at the mouth. It doesn’t take long before Vanessa collapses as well with Fisk rushing to her aid. Owlsley, who has yet to take a sip out of his glass, drops it to the floor.

In Matt’s apartment, Foggy is still furious with Matt, saying that he’s going to get himself killed, or find himself in prison; that he and Karen are now a part of this, and that they never had any say in the matter. After delivering some hard truths about their relationship, Foggy walks out the door leaving Matt sobbing on the couch.

Matt and Foggy have drinks and talk about the future, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

In a final flashback scene, we see Matt and Foggy in a bar. Judging by the cuts on Matt’s face, this takes place shortly after Matt’s first attack. Foggy has drawn a sign for their door on a bar napkin, hoping that Matt will be able to feel it. They speak jokingly about the commitments of going into business together and make a toast to their future. Finally, in the present, we see Foggy at the office, throwing the Nelson and Murdock sign into the garbage.

My thoughts

As mentioned at the beginning of the post, this is always a difficult episode for me to watch. On the one hand, I absolutely love that they decided to let Foggy in on Matt’s secret so early. In the timeline of this show, Matt’s vigilante activities go back just a few weeks. In the comic book universe, it took nearly 350 issues and thirty years before Foggy learned the truth, and he was far from the first person to do so. Considering how much this show is borrowing from the Bendis run – at least in tone and the overall look – it doesn’t surprise me though. Matt and Foggy are so much better together when Foggy knows about Matt’s abilities and secret life.

On the other hand, I have always been slightly uncomfortable with the level of pretense that goes into being Matt Murdock, and it’s one of those aspects of the character that I feel warrants a closer examination and explanation. My absolute favorite take on it, to date, is actually from the Waid/Samnee run where Matt explains to Foggy that he found it empowering to have a big secret like that. (See this page, from Daredevil #23, vol 3, and my post from last year “How Daredevil became Matt Murdock.”) There has to be more to it than Matt just finding it hard to explain, and I’m not sure this episode manages to deliver fully, even while covering a lot of ground.

Matt and Foggy first meet in law school, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

Part of the problem is that much of the supposed explanations for everything Matt does is missing from this episode, which obviously takes place over the course of an entire day. There is always the risk of an episode like this one being weighed down by too much exposition, but I honestly would have wanted Matt to say something, “on camera,” about the ways in which his heightened senses don’t compensate and that he could never pretend to be sighted. Not only because so many people seem to not fully get this (in some interviews, Charlie Cox even appears to be in this group, though to his credit, he’s also said certain things that suggest otherwise), but because, to me, it’s basically the only thing that makes Matt’s charade forgivable.

Of course, the act of concealing his heightened senses, in and of itself, is only one part of the betrayal. The other is what it means when it comes to things like Foggy realizing that Matt has been able to tell every time he’s told a lie. It’s such a violation of your most private thoughts, even though Matt can’t really help knowing these things. Then there is, of course, the huge revelation of what Matt does as the “Devil of Hell’s Kitchen.” Foggy is left not only wondering what Matt can do, but who he is and what he’s morally capable of. I really appreciate that Foggy argues his case like a lawyer here. They’re supposed to be going through the legal system, and what Matt is doing is so far outside of what they’re supposed to be about. You might question how Foggy would even suspect that Matt is guilty of everything he’s accused of – and Matt is clearly incredibly hurt by the question – but he’s now in the position of wondering whether anything he thought he knew about Matt Murdock is real.

The flashback sequences, though really wonderful, are also pretty hard for me to watch because I’m constantly reminded of Matt’s deceit. At the same time, they go a long way to smoothing things over for the viewer because while Matt is playing down his heightened senses – as he must, apparently – he’s probably sincere in every other respect. One way of thinking about it is that, to Matt, his “big lie” probably felt smaller around Foggy than it might have around other people, precisely because Foggy was always, from their very first meeting, willing to treat Matt’s blindness as nothing more than a minor physical trait with little bearing on his overall personality. So, when Foggy asks “Was anything ever real with us?” Matt probably genuinely feels that they were, at least in the ways that most mattered to him.

Matt and Foggy interning at Landman and Zack, as seen in episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

This episode, more than any other, also puts a spotlight on how there is more than one way to be a “good person.” Matt is both a scheming liar (there’s no denying it), and an idealist of the first order. Not only does he not hesitate to put himself in harm’s way to help others, he also feels very strongly that he can’t be in an environment that requires him to bargain with his conscience the way he did at Landman and Zack. Foggy, on the other hand, is more willing to let what is legal obscure what is moral (though he doesn’t have the benefit of a built-in lie detector). And he’s honest about wanting nice things. He doesn’t value money above all else, but worldly possessions are more important to him than they are to Matt. On the other hand, the emphasis here should be on the word “honest.” Foggy is genuine, he doesn’t pretend to be someone he’s not. He’s the kind of person Matt could probably read like an open book, even if he didn’t have heightened senses. Foggy is uncomplicated whereas Matt’s value system is so convoluted not even he knows how to navigate it.

One thing that this show has been masterful at is exploring the same themes from different angles. This is evident in how Matt’s life and motivations can be compared and contrasted with Fisk’s throughout the series. This episode is all about pretense and deception. We see Fisk and Gao forego Wesley’s company and speak directly with each other. As Gao points out, “the time for pretense is over.” At the same time, Karen doesn’t hesitate to use deception to trick Ben into going further down a road he was planning to get off. It is really a pretty heinous thing to do but, like Matt, she probably figures that her deception is serving a higher purpose. At the end of the day, this episode is as much about the lies we tell ourselves as it is about the lies we tell others.

Foggy takes one last look at the Nelson & Murdock sign, before throwing it in the garbage. From episode ten of Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix

Senses watch

There’s quite a bit this episode, as Matt has to explain his powers to Foggy. As mentioned, much of the actual explaining presumably take place between scenes though, much to my dismay. Matt lists the various ways in which he just “knows things,” and I was okay with them the second time I saw the episode, even though the bit about how he could tell Foggy had eaten onions two days ago only actually makes sense to me because he knows Foggy well. People don’t all metabolize things the same way, after all, and it seems the quantity would also be a variable factor. But it’s a minor quibble.

I had more issues with his hearing the girl who was being molested “down the block.” There are ways I can imagine this that feel more or less okay, but Matt’s ability to hear things over very great distances – or worse, through several walls or floors – will always be my biggest sensory pet peeve, here as well as in the comic. There’s heightened senses, and there’s Superman. Or psychic abilities. They shouldn’t be the same thing, but that’s a personal preference that not everybody shares obviously.

Matt pointing out that he has to concentrate to hear who Foggy is talking to on the phone was interesting though. This is in line with the comics, in the sense that Matt has rarely (outside of maybe the Bendis run), been imagined as anything but human when it comes to simple things like allocating attention. Attention is a finite resource and is also a logical prerequisite for a person’s ability to concentrate. Concentrating on one thing pretty much presupposes that there are other things going on that you’re not concentrating on. Daredevil analyzing a scene has usually been about him mentally picking it apart in a mostly sequential fashion, not unlike what a normal person would do, just using other kinds of cues.

(Accessible) gadget watch

Well, we get another phone call, this time from Karen, announced for both Matt and Foggy to hear. And there’s more braille reading. Again, not exactly a gadget. I will say this though: Matt has already read more braille in this show than in every issue of Daredevil combined.

Easter egg watch

This episode has the Easter egg that had almost every die-hard Daredevil fan oohing, with the mention of the “Greek girl” Matt dated in college (and who apparently was in his Spanish class). This is obviously a reference to Elektra.

During their internship at Landman and Zack, Matt and Foggy work with a team of lawyers representing Marvel’s well-known evil corporation Roxxon.

At Fisk’s benefit gala, Owsley mentions senator a “van Lunt and his crackpot astrologer.” Aside from advising senator Cherryh on his senate campaign, van Lunt apparently owns the building they’re in. In the 616 universe, Cornelius van Lunt is better known under his Taurus identity, as one of the leaders of the Zodiac criminal empire.

Quotes

Foggy: “Come on! You got your peepers knocked out, saving that old dude.”
Matt: “They didn’t get knocked out.”
Foggy: “Good. ‘Cause that would be… a little freaky. No offense!”

Foggy: “Me and you, Marverick and Goose. No secrets.”
Matt: “Goose died. And, he was married.”

Foggy: “A blind, old man taught you the ancient ways of martial arts? Isn’t that the plot to Kung Fu?”

Foggy: “Murdock and Nelson, attorneys at law!”
Matt: “Nelson and Murdock. It sounds better.”
Foggy: “You think?”
Matt: “Yeah, trust me. I can’t see worth shit, but my hearing’s spectacular.”

Wesley: “You weren’t particularly fond of Nobu. You thought he was unsettling, as I recall.”
Owlsley: “I find you unsettling half the time. See me lighting a match?”

Matt: “Sometimes the law isn’t enough.”

Foggy: “With you as my partner, there’s no telling when I’m going to be able to afford a real meal again.”

Karen: “We all have things we hold onto for ourselves, that we don’t want anyone to know.”
Ben: “But there’s always someone who does, sooner or later.”

Matt: “Sounds like we’re getting married.”
Foggy: “This is way more important than a civil union. We’re going to be business partners! We’ll share everything with each other; our thoughts, our dreams, bills, crushing debt.”

Foggy: “Misspelling Hanukkah is a mistake, attempted murder is a little something else.”

Star player

Foggy Nelson, hands down. This is the episode where you’re really rooting for Foggy. We love Matt, flaws and all, but Foggy really has every right to be as angry as he is. For me, the thing that best defines Foggy as a character here is this exchange:

Foggy: “I wouldn’t have kept this from you Matt. Not from you.”
Matt: “You don’t know that, you don’t know that.”
Foggy: “Yeah. I do.”

I really believe that Foggy means this. Matt may be the idealist of the two of them, but Foggy is more genuine as a person in that what you see is what you get kind of way.

Christine Hanefalk

Christine Hanefalk

Based in Stockholm, Sweden, Christine is a die-hard Daredevil fan who launched The Other Murdock Papers in 2007 to share her passion for Matt Murdock and his friends with other fans.

22 comments

  1. Haii you there.. 1st, i want to say sorry for my bad English bcoz English is not my 1st language. i really enjoyed your blog because Matt murdock is my favorite superhero and your blog is awesome.

    your recap also awesome. i have read a lot of netflix daredevil recap and review and yours is one of the best.
    i remembered fell in love with Matt M. when i was13 after i watched affleck’ daredevil. He is not like another superhero. he’s not batman or ironman. He just regular guy with heightened sense and courage and never give up.
    then about month ago I watched netfllix daredevil. and ya.. it is awesome.
    probably i am not super fans like you. you did amazing job with your blog and seems like you have read every daredevil comics. I just want to say thank you for great blog and great recap.

    have a nice day..

  2. Fair warning, I’m probably going to make multiple comments over the next few days. There is so much to this episode but rather than post a novel I’ll try to address things item by item.

    First up: the super hearing thing – “I had more issues with his hearing the girl who was being molested “down the block.” There are ways I can imagine this that feel more or less okay, but Matt’s ability to hear things over very great distances – or worse, through several walls or floors – will always be my biggest sensory pet peeve, here as well as in the comic. There’s heightened senses, and there’s Superman. Or psychic abilities. They shouldn’t be the same thing, but that’s a personal preference that not everybody shares obviously.”

    I don’t know if you’ve lived in a big city like NYC. My experience was living in Chicago, in big “brownstone” type buildings, tenements, etc. You can hear a LOT of what goes in your building and on your street, even if your hearing is merely normal. You can hear family conversations, wife beaters, kid beaters, arguments, every variety of music on the planet, and so forth. They don’t give a precise distance, just “down the block” without a ton of details. Having lived in the big city it doesn’t strike me as being too much of a stretch that Matt could hear something bad going on. But that’s me.

    The other reason that struck me is because of something that happened when I was a teenager. We lived in a townhouse back then, and at one point I started hearing strange thumps and thuds and crying through my bedroom wall. I eventually figured out that the next door neighbor was abusing her six year old daughter and I could no longer dismiss the noise as the kids next door playing. I was hearing the sound of a little girl being beaten, thrown against the wall, and beating her own head against the wall. So yes, even though of us who are mere, sighted mortals can sometimes hear things through walls.

    It was a really terrible episode in my life. Trying to tell someone and being disbelieved, being discouraged from reporting it because “they never do anything and you can’t prove it” and if you do maybe the evil lady will try to get back at you, trying to fall asleep at night hearing a kid being beaten, reporting it anyway, following up with protective services, dealing with the monster to try to get more information and details… probably the closest I’ve come to being an actual superhero in life. The monster next door for some reason trusted me and my best friend, to the point that one day she actually punched the little girl repeatedly in front of us several times then dragged her up a flight of stairs by her ankles – it’s like she had no clue that her behavior was wrong. She skipped town, which stalled the investigation by the state into what was going on (they were proceeding to relieve the mom of custody) but the monster had asked my friend and I to help her move… so we had her new address and passed it along to the authorities. Then the woman left the state with two of her three daughters.

    In the end, the monster’s oldest daughter was legally emancipated and got free of her. We did not save the two younger ones. I doubt I’ll ever know what happened to that six year old I used to hear being beaten as I lay in bed trying to sleep, but at least I tried to save her and her sisters.

    So, needless to say, that little story of Matt’s really grabbed me on a visceral level. And I think that’s one reason why Daredevil has always had a certain following despite the moral ambiguities, the violence, and the deceit. If you’ve experienced something like that, seen a crime, seen, for lack of a better word, evil you understand the urge to DO SOMETHING, even if that something isn’t legal. Matt Murdock is a very human superhero, with very human urges and very human flaws. He’s a lot like the rest of us – no saint, just trying to make the world a better place.

    And yes, you CAN hear terrible things through walls and floors sometimes.

  3. @Broomstick: First of all, what a sad, sad story. Good on you for getting involved, but very sad that there was no happy ending here.

    About the super hearing, like I said, there are ways to imagine this that work for me. One being that Matt is close to one window, and the girl is diagonally across the street, also close to a window. The point being that if there are few and/or thin surfaces/walls/widows separating the source of the sound and Matt’s ears, preferably combined with it not being too far away, this is all fine with me. I hear things through walls all the time, I can easily hear people talking on the street below me (I live on the third floor), or at the bottom of the stair case. In all of these cases, it’s easy to figure out why, and it’s generally the low frequency sounds that travel the farthest (being the least likely to be fully absorbed by walls etc.) And yes, I’ve lived in big cities.

    What I take issue with is that, too often, writers of the comics – and this show – are seemingly completely unaware of the inverse square law (which for reasons of too much math to get into here, is actually just an “inverse” law – without the “square” when it comes to property of sound intensity as measured in dB) or are unaware that a solid wall will absorb quite a bit of sound. Sounds interact with the physical world in ways that no amount of super hearing can undo or amplify. I’m fine with quite a bit of artistic license, obviously, but there have always been situations that are legitimately extreme and very far beyond the physically possible. In particular when it comes to Matt hearing and understanding actual spoken conversations.

    The situation with the girl can, as mentioned, be imagined in ways that are more or less plausible. For someone who is in the same building, there are also other routes for sound to travel that bypass walls, such as pipes and ventilation ducts.

  4. This episode made me extremely uncomfortable the first time I watched it, which is why I don’t rate it highly, but, to its credit, that feeling was intentional. This exactly how the discovery that your blind friend can do far more than he pretends should feel. I agree with you that he should have done more of a defense of how he actually is blind than he did (my favorite quote, which I think you pointed out to me, was from Issue 191 where he said When he’s Murdock, he doesn’t have to use his heightened senses to pretend he isn’t blind.), but I also think he would have looked like he was deflecting at a time when full honesty about what he can do was appropriate. The flashback sequences, although they make present day more powerful, also provide a pleasant relief in their innocence.

    Unlike you, I’m cooler with higher power in his senses. I think there’s a limit that sometimes gets absurdly passed, but a few blocks, when heard through a window through the night air, is OK with me.

  5. @Mike Murdock:

    “Unlike you, I’m cooler with higher power in his senses. I think there’s a limit that sometimes gets absurdly passed, but a few blocks, when heard through a window through the night air, is OK with me.”

    Yeah, as mentioned, there are ways to imagine this scene that do make sense to me (in line with what you mentioned here), so I’m actually pretty okay with it now. The first time I saw the series though, I was just constantly on guard, waiting for them to do really weird shit which made me more sensitive than I usually am with the comics.

    About the discomfort, I’m glad to hear I’m not alone. There is just so much hurt on all sides here. Matt legitimately feels awful about the whole thing, and Foggy has to be wondering whether any of the things he thought he knew about Matt are true. And learning that there’s also this violent side to him is shocking in itself.

  6. Great review.
    This episode, along with “Speak of the Devil” (my personal fav) are absolutely everything I wanted out of this series going in and they both were home runs. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Charlie Cox deserves and Emmy for this episode and the last. He goes through every emotion a human can effortlessly and completely believably, often times with just his eyes and lots of times without his eyes.

    I agree with Broomstick on Matt being able to hear the girl “down the block”. I’ve never been witness to anything like his horrible tale, but having lived in various apartments and neighborhoods, you do hear the unwanted sounds of your neighbor’s comings and goings, and not just next door. This didn’t strike me as unbelievable like what Stick was doing or the earlier episode with Vladimir.

    I’ve probably said it before here on this site, but my favorite aspect of Matt Murdock is that he’s just barely a hero. He’s a lying, hypocritical, scheming, self-righteous, violence addicted asshole. Sure he wants and tries to be better than that, as he should, but I sure as hell don’t want him to ever become better. The same way I didn’t want Don Draper to become an honorable, faithful, family and business man. If he did, he be boring as hell and I wouldn’t be watching. I love that this series, and especially this episode, didn’t shy away from this.

    Another tiny thing I noticed in this episode the second time I watched it is in the flashback when Matt and Foggy first meet. The date on Foggy’s computer screen says Fall 2010 registration. This is their freshman year of college right? So that date doesn’t really jive, unless they were going with the “Stan Lee” origin where you don’t have to go to Law School for 3 years after college to be a lawyer 🙂 I know this was probably just some overlooked graphic a production artist threw together for a quick shot, but when I saw it my brain went “wait, what now?”

  7. @Tate:

    “The date on Foggy’s computer screen says Fall 2010 registration. This is their freshman year of college right?”

    Actually, I think it’s supposed to be their freshman year of law school, and they presumably didn’t meet each other until they were done with their undergraduate studies. Sure, they’re taking Spanish and Punjabi, but a freeze frame of Foggy’s classes shows that everything except the Punjabi is all legal courses. (As usual, click to zoom in.)

    Foggy's class schedule

  8. I thought that too after a while Christine, that it was probably meant to be Law School. Something about the tone of the scene though at first just struck me as “freshmen in college”. I don’t know, because I’ve never been to law school, it just struck me as odd that they’d still be taking basic language courses like “Spanish” or “Punjabi”. I would think it’d be more like “Legal Transactions in Asia” or something. I’m a designer and never had to worry about language courses that much.

  9. It seem to me that if you’re planning to be a defense attorney in a big, cosmopolitan city, particularly if you have any notion of working as a public defender ever, for any length of time, having some working knowledge of a language other than English would be a valuable skill. Punjabi is a bit of a reach (although in NYC pretty much any language you care to name is spoken by someone) but studying Spanish makes a lot of sense.

    That said, I haven’t a clue how US law schools work. How it’s portrayed here may be one of those things that cause people in the profession to laugh uproariously while the rest of the world doesn’t get what’s wrong with the portrayal.

    By the way – I really, really like the screenshot that heads this post, because it really sums up the episode. At heart, it’s about relationships, first and foremost the relationship of two good friends, Foggy and Matt.

  10. I texted my cousin who has been practicing law for about 20 years about language courses in college vs. law school. This was her quick response:

    “Languages were not a law school offering when I was there, but I can’t speak to whether any schools now let you use any language credits toward the degree or incorporate it in any particular courses. In general, I would guess the language component is normally done in college or as separate credits beyond law school offerings.”

    This was just her personal experience from 2 decades ago.
    It seems to me in that scene, yes it was law school not college, and they just wanted to reference the “punjabi” joke and they never expected anyone to ever have this conversation 🙂

  11. Matt and Foggy And Secrets

    A key point of this episode is, of course, the relationship between Matt and Foggy. Foggy goes through enormous emotional changes in this episode. First, the mood whiplash from thinking he might be threatened by the Devil of Hell’s Kitchen to realizing the man is injured to discovering the man is Matt, of all people. More mood whiplash because this man with whom he has clearly spent a substantial portion of the past few years, his very best friend, has this major secret that he has kept completely hidden from Foggy. There is so much mood whiplash here Foggy should be in a neck brace.

    However, the anger Foggy displays is not from the ethical shadiness of Matt’s actions – after all, Foggy skirts the line, and occasionally over it, himself – but because he never let Foggy in on the secret. Foggy knows why Matt keeps all this secret, he shows that by lying to Karen when she calls. He barely hesitates. Then he rips Matt not only about lying to people around him but leading Foggy to do the same thing. Then shortly after that Foggy admits that he’s lied to Matt from time to time over the years, just after Matt lets him know that he’s a walking lie detector. Foggy isn’t squeaky clean, either and there’s some hypocrisy in taking Matt to task for lying (especially over something like being a vigilante hero, which probably should be secret) when he’s lied in the past himself. Although probably none of his lies were that big. He also acknowledges that “hey, I have super-senses” is probably not the first thing you’re going to tell a new acquaintance.

    Foggy lists a number of reasons why Matt shouldn’t have held back, among them the legal liabilities, but the real reason was that he thought their relationship was such that they would share all the important things… and Matt didn’t. Among other things, Foggy helps out his blind partner as a matter of course, informing him of things like people nodding or holding up things to look at. He’s doing this to help out his friend, of course, but I think that’s where part of the hurt comes from – dude, I didn’t need to that? It’s a bit like when it’s revealed Fisk can speak Mandarin – Wesley is left with a “why the hell am I doing this for you?” expression on his face. Foggy accommodated Matt’s blindness while doing a good job of not holding Matt back or impeding him, but now has to re-evaluate that part of the relationship. He probably feels a bit used. We only see part of Matt’s explanation of how he perceives the world but Foggy’s reaction is right – it IS weird and creepy and on some level invasive. Which, of course, is why Matt doesn’t talk about it. Just the whole sense of smell thing – body odor is so taboo in current US society but Matt is keenly aware of the scent of everyone around him. Listening to someone’s heart rate and breathing is something we associate with a medical exam, not casual interaction. As the conversation goes on Foggy must be second guessing himself – is my heart speeding up or not? What is Matt perceiving? Foggy thought he understand how Matt “saw” the world, it turns out he doesn’t.

    However, there is never any doubt the friendship is intact. Despite the anger, the silent treatment, and everything else you KNOW Foggy and Matt are going to reconcile, and not just because we’re fans here and that’s how Nelson and Murdock roll. It’s because even at maximum anger at Matt, when that phone rings and Karen answers, Foggy lies for Matt to keep his secret. That’s the action of someone who still cares, who is still trying to protect his friend. Foggy is angry, with some justification, but still cares about Matt. Not just that, but getting him help, watching over him when he’s grievously injured. Foggy speaks angry but acts caring throughout the entire episode.

    For Matt, this episode is clearly a nadir. He was almost killed, he’s lying helpless on the couch, his secret is out to Foggy, his best friend is seriously pissed at him. But it’s also the point where he starts to climb back up out of the hole he’s been sliding into for several episodes. Now that the secret is out he can talk to and confide in his best friend. He no longer has to hide his differences. Think about how hard that has to be, pretending not to have enhanced senses when you’re living with someone in a dorm room, when you’re working in the same office, when you’re socializing with someone. A lot of married couples don’t spend as much time together as these two do. Matt no longer having to lie is liberating, although that’s not immediately obvious to either man.

    The other thing is that Matt can’t do the hero thing alone, that becomes painfully obvious (literally). He needs Claire to help patch him up when he gets hurt. He needs Foggy to help cover for him. Later on, he needs help getting a better costume/armor. This isn’t about being blind, it’s about being one human being with human limitations. Matt will be stronger in the future because he’ll have Foggy to help him.

    This episode fleshes out the relationship between these two, and does it during a secret identity reveal. I think it was handled really well, with both parties having to make adjustments in their relationship based on that fact, and with more realistic reactions than the usual. Of course there would be feelings of betrayal, and those feelings wouldn’t be resolved instantly. The cold, frosty anger between Matt and Foggy for some time afterward is entirely appropriate. Foggy’s self-anger – which is what a lot of the drinking is about – has to due with him not figuring it out himself, earlier. After all, Foggy is a genuinely smart guy. He lived with Matt, in the same room, for years. Matt’s cover isn’t perfect – we see that in the discussion about drunken spins where Matt almost spills the beans – and Foggy has commented numerous times in the past that Matt seems to pick up on things a completely blind man shouldn’t. Well, yes, he does, and now not only do we know why but Foggy knows, too.

  12. I’ve already mentioned on previous posts how much I love this episode, especially the flashbacks (so funny & sweet) and the crying (so sad). One thing no one has mentioned was Karen, upon hearing that Matt was in a car accident, immediately asks if he was driving. Cracked me up.

    There was one thing that bugged me and it wasn’t until I listened to a podcast interview with one of the show’s creators that I realized what was wrong. He mentioned that they had to be really careful when filming to not include sight line shots for Matt, since he doesn’t actually see, which is different than usual when directing. However, when Matt first wakes up, he turns his head to the right and down toward the floor. The image then cuts to some bloody bandages on the floor right around where it looked like he was facing. It bothered me, but I couldn’t figure out why until I realized that they’d accidentally made it look like he was seeing the floor. Funny how it unconsciously affected me. How careful they must have been with the rest of the series so that one split second caught my attention.

  13. Matt probably smelled the blood and gauze, but you can’t depict smell in video format so it’s probably one of those things the particular media format doesn’t handle well.

  14. Totally agree with you on a lot of points here. Especially on this – “There is always the risk of an episode like this one being weighed down by too much exposition, but I honestly would have wanted Matt to say something, “on camera,” about the ways in which his heightened senses don’t compensate and that he could never pretend to be sighted.”
    I really loved this episode but wasn’t particularly fond of how skimmed over the whole thing felt in a way sometimes mostly because we don’t really get to see how he “explains” everything to Foggy and not only that but a lot of people seem to get confused sometimes about the “World on Fire”.
    I don’t really like when people see the radar sense/senses as a sort of “fix” and they fully compensate for sight because the senses really don’t compensate for absolutely everything, and there’s still a lot Matt really can’t do. Sometimes I also get the feeling that it’s not really shown as much in the show either, like it’s sort of forgotten.
    I love Charlie Cox but he also gives me that impression sometimes where he doesn’t fully understand it but at the same time he does?? It’s confusing

  15. Thank you so much for this review. I’ve been searching the web for comments on this episode that help to clarify what I’ve been think and feeling about it and the series. My thanks also to others on the comment thread for their insights. I’m loving the series and grappling with how flawed Matt actually is, how close he is to becoming a Fisk in the name of protecting the city. You’ve nailed it in this review, Matt is a liar. The question I’ve come to is – is Matt Murdock outside of the mask a complete construct? Is the aggressive and even menacing Daredevil the true self that got buried in college and law school?

    If you watch the masterful job Charlie Cox does in the flashback scenes, there is a physical lightness to Matt. He even laughs differently. It is an easy chuckle that escapes him. I love these choices both by Cox and the production team. There is something so charming and attractive about Matt in these flashbacks that is absent in the present day Murdock of the story. Was this the man (in Law school) he wanted to be? He worked hard at to be affable, friendly, charming? My impression is yes. The more he lets out the devil the less of this person seems to exist at all.

    I’m also struck by the choice made by the director and or Cox to hold Matt back from falling apart and apologizing to Foggy. As viewer I desperately wanted to see Matt come clean in a way where he fully expresses is shame at deceiving Foggy and literally breaks down. But you see him fighting, holding back the tears and pulling at his sweats (a 100% believable physical reaction to Foggy’s withering statements – Cox deserves an Emmy nomination for the series). But he doesn’t collapse into sobs, which is where this conversation is logically headed by tone and physicality of the actors. This doesn’t happen for another two episodes later, and this is much less fulfilling to watch. Which makes me go back to the start of my post about liar/manipulator Matt actually is.

    Foggy is the one who is owed the full exposure to Matt’s confession and admission of need. But he gives to Karen and I can only think its because he picks up on her attraction to him and he is just baiting the hook – to have Karen as an lover when its useful to him without actually being 100% truthful with her. During episode 10 and beyond with Foggy he’s got to play the fighter and layer; stand his ground and win the argument that he couldn’t be honest and that Foggy and the ends justify the means, even if it means playing your best friend for a fool. Did I miss it? Did he actually apologize and admit it was wrong. I’m trying to savor the last couple of episode, so I’m not sure. But I don’t think its coming.

  16. Why do you feel Foggy has a right to be that angry? Can you explain a little about why you feel this way, and why you feel Foggy is entitled to all of Matt’s secrets, to such a level. I understand him being hurt, but don’t understand the entitlement and demand that Matt HAD to tell him or was a horrible friend. I’m not a crime fighting hero, and I still don’t tell my friends EVERYTHING. I guess I don’t understand the expectation that you have to, or you’re a terrible person/ can not be friends and cannot have a good relationship.

    1. Rissa: Thank you for commenting!

      That I feel that Foggy has a right to be angry does not actually mean that I don’t also think that Matt has the right to keep things, including his Daredevil life and heightened senses, secret. Foggy being angry (a natural, human emotion) and his being entitled to Matt’s secret (a moral judgment on the situation) are two different things. A few years ago, I wrote a post about the morality of Matt keeping his senses secret and concluded that he has every right not to tell anyone. You can read it here.

      Regardless of whether Matt is in the right (morally) or not, I believe that it is still legitimate, and very understandable, for Foggy to feel anger. Learning Matt’s secret feels like a betrayal to him on many levels (regardless of whether Matt feels the betrayal was necessary and just). Not only has he been lied to in the recent past, with all the talk about the Man in Black, while Matt is sitting right there playing along. Was it wrong to lie? Not necessarily. Is it natural for Foggy to feel like something pretty big has been hidden from him, and that he’s been made to feel like a fool for not being included? Also, yes.

      Going back a bit further, and looking at the dynamics of their friendship, it is also natural for Foggy to feel that learning about Matt’s heightened senses changes things. As things progress, Foggy comes to learn that the friendship was real, that Matt is still the same person (we see clear evidence of this in the opening of season two, when Matt and Foggy talk about their college days and these memories still hold “true” for both of them). However, initially when Foggy finds out, he at first starts to wonder whether Matt is even blind at all, or if Foggy’s been playing the part of a fool all these years. Being made to feel like the butt of a joke (even though that was never Matt’s intention) gives rise to feelings of resentment, and in this case anger. A very natural human emotion.

      In this post, I do characterize Matt’s decision to hide things from Foggy as a betrayal. And I do characterize Matt as, pretty much, a scheming liar. And I’ll admit that this is one aspect of the character that I’ve always had issues with (see the link I posted above). But, I also understand where Matt is coming from, and that he doesn’t feel that he has much choice. I don’t think he’s a terrible person. I think he’s, at his core, a very good person who legitimately cares about Foggy and other people in his life. The problem is the size of the lie (or the omission of information). Foggy isn’t entitled to any of Matt’s secrets, but I still feel that it is a very big thing to keep from someone you’re close to, and I emotionally relate to Foggy more than I do Matt in this situation. At the same time, I understand completely where Matt is coming from as well. It’s just a fact of life that two people who love each other can hurt each other, and that both can feel that their feelings are valid and their reasons sound.

  17. Hi Rissa. It bothered me too for a while some time ago.

    I must admit though, I really like the way that Chris does not just state the most obvious, that being that he is protecting his loved ones from harm’s way. Which, of course, is true, but one could argue opposite.
    Example (are you SURE your govt there in so&so can control the nuclear power and keep it away from the hands of terrorists?). Follow me? Ok, listen..

    “you’ve got to believe in something.. if you don’t you will be lost.
    You’ve got to believe in SOMEONE.. no matter the cost.”

    I’ve posted this little phrase before. It’s from the song “I give, you give blind” by Steven Stills of CSN from the mid ’70s (if you do not recognize it).

    Most of us have the same dilemma as your question at some point.. so, without getting into a long rant-sounding explanation (which could fill quite a few volumes in a virtual “The Grand Encyclopedia Of Philosophy”) of why what Matt did was wrong, please permit me to bring your attention to just the one thing that I think most would agree as core to this argument.

    In reality, if Matt were a real person, what he does as DD is illegal and violates the central concept of society governed by the people, not the “PERSON”. If you follow me, we could ask Murdock, “Mr, who in HELLo do you think that you are?” And in any case and in reality no one person can nor should have to bear that kind of total responsibility alone.
    And being key here is, so that his CLOSEST friend (no family) does not feel like having been a vitrine, accomplice, untrustworthy, fool etc all that time, and so many more reasons for being viewed as betrayal, but too many to list.

    Hope this eases (1 of) the mind-boggle(s) our hero creates.

  18. Do not think it necessary, but since I want to be sure I am not assuming that I am being followed, the example implies in full..

    “Are you SURE that your govt, on it’s OWN, in so&so-land can control the nuclear power and keep it out of the hands of terrorists? DEFINITELY yes? For an INDEFINITE timespan? Again, all ALONE?”

    Without exterior help, even in a well meaning developing nation, if their security is breached, then there is no need to count how many would have to pay.. in all likelihood, there would be no one left to even begin the count.

    That and, even with just Foggy’s knowledge of Daredevil’s ID, then it would not technically be by the “person”, but rather by the “people”, even if only two, (three?).

    Finally, someone has posted, and very correctly, in a similar topic that “Matt has always been his own worst enemy”.. and indeed it is himself he has most forked here.

  19. I guess it doesn’t make sense to me because Foggy wasn’t an accomplice, in any way. Was what Matt does technically illegal? Yes it is. Unethical? Depends on one’s ethics I guess. Immoral? No. Noone was killed, and only active criminals were harmed, usually because they were stopped from actively harming others. That’d be something I’d at least be willing to LISTEN to my friend about, before I jumped down their throat with accusations for their “terrible betrayal.” I knew someone who went over to her cheating boyfriend’s house and punched him in the face. Which was illegal and she could’ve been charged with assault. But I wouldn’t call it a betrayal if she didn’t tell me. If she is doing something illegal behind my back, no matter how good friends we are, I might be disappointed. I might be upset. I might ask why she felt like she couldn’t tell me something like this, and reassure her that she could and I wish she would. But I wouldn’t feel ENTITLED and demand reparations for her heinous injustice toward ME. Because honestly, it’s not about me. Her life decisions don’t need to be about me. I’m not directly involved. I would ask her why she did it. But would not act as if she had made a personal attack against me, because at the end of the day, it’s her life. She is an adult. She can decide what she is going to do with her life or not. I can advise her. I can feel for her. I can try to convince her to do what I FEEL is right. But I cannot control her, or emotionally blackmail her into compliance. Nor would I try. Even if it were my blood relative wouldn’t do this.

    1. Hey again Rissa,

      I suppose that, to some extent, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think what the whole thing boils down to, for me, is that this revelation that Foggy is confronted with isn’t merely a secret that can be understood as separate from their day to day interactions. When Foggy learns about Matt’s (extensive) double life as Daredevil, and the senses that allow him to even be Daredevil in the first place, it calls into question the very nature of their relationship. Foggy wonders how well he knows his friend at all.

      It turns out that they are able to find their way back to each other, and Foggy understands that Matt – in all the ways that mattered – is the same friend he knows and loves. That is what allows them to move past this and if that hadn’t been the case, the friendship would have ended. But when Foggy first finds out, it is natural for him to wonder: “Who are you?” And that causes him to feel hurt, and in turn anger. Matt knows who he is, and that his friendship with Foggy is real. Foggy just needs to chance to catch up and digest this new information.

  20. Hi again Rissa. Very good and bravo for sticking to your guns, because regardless of which opinion you feel is correct, you would be right. He did it, it was done, but at any rate I should have thought to state that a change of mind was not required. Too extreme, sorry.

    And seeing that Chris has not yet responded to your further inquiry, I am going to take a chance and say that I feel responsible for your continued state of incompleteness. That is because there is really nothing in your recent questioning acting as a respondent to anything in Chris’ answer to your initial question, besides your referral to “Betrayal”, which she expressed as having a problem with as part of Matt’s sometimes shyster character traits on the whole. Something that many others do also.

    And other than her attempt to express that this topic regarding whether or not Matt acted accordingly owns premise stemming from a matter of neutrality and one’s belief as a matter of opinion does indeed propose its own answer in itself, I think there is really not much more that one would able add from her position, I believe at least. And since the bulk of your response seems to stem from points which I incompletely presented in my attempt to explain this opposing view, well, hence the need I feel to “come clean”.

    Before continuing it may help to understand that this and other character flaws in Matt’s personality could be filed along with many other problems that have plagued this character and which the director of this site has brought to light, and in a very complete and comprehensive way. If you’ve followed her you may know of or if need be to read up and discover many of the other inconsistencies in the creators’ older presentations of this character, mainly regarding the things that he can do with his heightened senses and also his limitations. Things like having ability well beyond what even just your common sense would question, never mind detailed analysis backed by scientific and factual support as she has so meticulously done, and shared. For example his being able to read even laser print and faster than a sighted person or, worse, computer screens with his fingers, or being able to hear from outrageous distances even with unbelievable obstacles in his way, or seeing with his radar sense all too well and through and under impossible to do so objects and situations, and other things that just didn’t hold water. So it is with somethings when it comes to his character or personality too.

    I had gut feelings about this sort of whacked out stuff from a while ago, but nobody had straightened out the path before I started reading this site. THEN many gut feelings became crystal clear and laid out in order of a sensible fashion. So is why I too would wish for Matt to have acted otherwise to improve his character as Chris mentioned.

    Which is how I interpreted her distaste and, agreeing with her, is why responded to your question. Her concerns boil down to good, better and most believable storytelling possible. And having seen slow, but steady and real change in many previously not so believable aspects of Daredevil, I believe that her effort has been noticed and not for naught. This particular point about his personality is important to her, to many of us, because it is in regards to Matt, the man, the real identity of the character and, again because better scripting in storytelling is the top priority.

    Here, in this topic, if we bear in mind that is merely a case of a situation where the proponents are not really at issue because the outcome can be true regardless which view you prefer to see most, then it is the opinion which is the determinate so, you are, I say again, correct, on all points and from most all angles.

    I wouldn’t have been surprised if you had lent a more basic example that even in it’s simplest form would have blown my extreme, grandiose one above, up and out of the water. Like the classic right to smoke if one choses while knowing the hazards involved. Then here without even making the effort, you would extend the most obvious “not endangering others” from not even being only an expectation, but obligatory (just don’t puff around us).

    Sticking to your guns is correct and respect worthy. Very good argument where you mention your girlfriend, and I can relate to your feelings about blood-relation. My brothers and I have all argued with each other, even come to blows a few times, but it does not mean that we do not love each other. We just can’t stay angry for too long, even knowing that if in having done something really off, like having raised a hand to our mother, then the others would have killed him.

    Public knowledge and proud of it (mainly because it would never happen).

    (Or did their father pinch their temple-hair a bit too hard? And the result is such perspectives? It’s cool to think that may be, because it’s funny, Goodgod, southern men, haha! Our grandfather on his deathbed told our father who had been away a bit, “come closer, I want to tell you something. Closer” and he pulled the hair around his temple as hard as a dying man could. “Just so you may never say that I ever let you get away with anything”, THEN he died. Our grandmother told us that he had done something minor just before his old man became sick, somewhat prematurely. There, publically stated and, again, proud of it)

    Oh, and “most all angles” merely refers to the inherent nature of the topic. Meaning to say that I could claim that while the difference between Foggy and Matt, that being that one as more of a “stock” character ONLY (and in no way demeaning) when viewed in relation to the other “super” hero with a heightened sense, would instantly justify the mere human Foggy while also simultaneously lean bias toward obliging Matt via of his “gift” to have had better “sensed” the correct course of action regarding his decision, this still would not negate your side of the argument. Because why read below.

    You would then need only to counter this view by arguing, again and according to my reasoning even moreso, Matt acted correctly, for your opinion of the natural course of his response would also be fortified. If viewing Matt as being “more” human that way, then you would be even more correct

    See, above I would be merely multiplying the degrees on the scale that measures the state of limbo of the contingency created by the condition of the subject in question. Still leaving it again smack dead center so as for it to be interpreted as being and also not being simultaneously both correct and/or wrong.

    From a character development angle though, that mentioned in the previous paragraph regarding Matt’s heightened sense additionally extending to include his emotional states could be something explored by the creative team. Just a thought though. May be that it could have produced even further positive results in scripting.

    To be honest (why do you usually lie geb? you may think and please do so if it makes you laugh), I’m not sure what ALL of the reasons possessed by ALL of the supporters in favor of a quicker apology are but, as cited and wisely in the review, it seems that an attempt on Matt’s part to at least explain that he could not pass off as sighted even if he tried, would have gone a long way. Mainly in improving the storytelling.
    In as a further humanization of the character bringing added believability while still in keeping within the middle ground needed to progress the plot of Matt’s dismantling civil life so that the story can be told according to the pop-theme, and with even more depth, I believe. This way, in and through these critical steps, more credence would be given to the whole, in my opinion of course.

    (Related to good scripting, pacing, plotting, etc in storytelling is that, when executed correctly, even pop-music can be rendered with dignity and garner awe and mutual respect through the artists’ initially respecting their audience, is what these sporadic, but small and few I think, lyrical phrases I threw in as examples are intended to show. Plus, for fun, If one is wondering)

    Regardless, even in the event of a then and there full apology on Matt’s part, the plot would still be progressed, although now somewhat less smoothly. The writers would here merely still script a denial on Foggy’s part and proceed. Here, though, it would weigh on Foggy’s character coming off as fully bull-headed. The smoothest would have been a real middle ground as suggested in the review, with the attempt at at least an explanation of his inabilities to Fog.

    Had they done it the other way, with a refusal of accepting an apology then you would not even need try to win me over to your opinion because here now Foggy would indeed have been even moreso paralogical than you feel he was being to begin with.

    So, that’s about it. It was a pleasure hearing you opinions and hope you stay well. I must stop now for I feel guilty using so much space in trying to fix something that I feel responsible for. And I do not even now how to work this darn gizmo well enough so as I can at least set some links to some cool stuff that I feel some here would appreciate being shared. Just a little reimbursement for being given a place to speak a bit of mind. Perhaps when the kids come this summer I can manage to hold one hostage long enough to show me some how to’s,

    Thanks for bearing with me.

    sorry chris

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